Curse

jacksojj418 · Nov 01, 2005, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Was wondering what would be better on a hammer, sunder or double adrenaline haft?

striderkaaru · Nov 01, 2005, 05:29 PM // 17:29

i'm partial to a furious haft.

Man With No Name · Nov 01, 2005, 05:29 PM // 17:29

If we're talking PvP there's only three hafts you should really consider IMO...

- Elemental Damage hilts ( Fire, Lightning, Cold )

If your going to use Conjure Flame for example, you'll need a Fiery Hammer.

- Zealous

For energy gain on every hit

- Vampiric

For 3 extra damage per hit

I'll usually use a Sundering PvP Axe of Fortitude and a Vampiric PvP Axe of Fortitude whenever I make a Warrior. Sundering is crap as is Furious -- who wants a 10% chance to do something :?

The conditional hilts are garbage too

Although I might aswell take the Sundering bonus -- since I'll be switching to the Vampiric when hitting anyways...

I'd recommend:

- Elemental + Vampiric
- Elemental + Zealous
- Zealous + whatever ( Sundering/Furious/Conditional )
- Vampiric + whatever ( Sundering/Furious/Conditional )

jacksojj418 · Nov 01, 2005, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Well im talking about hammer, axe you hit faster and get adrenaline faster.

striderkaaru · Nov 01, 2005, 05:36 PM // 17:36

he's talking about a hammer, not an axe.

elemental hafts aren't so useful since people rarely ever use a conjure skill with a hammer. people use hammers for the knockdown. if you're going to use conjure, then use a faster attacking weapon. same goes for zealous or vampiric hafts. hammers don't attack fast enough to make it worthwhile.

i personally like furious hafts on my hammers. 10% chance to start my knockdown chain 1 hit earlier? i'll take that chance.

jacksojj418 · Nov 01, 2005, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Thanks striderkaaru.

Man With No Name · Nov 01, 2005, 05:44 PM // 17:44

*sigh*

If you really can't see why Furious and Sundering is absolute shit -- then I guess your beyond help. If it was 50% chance of double adrenaline or +10% Penetration then I could agree.

Here's a game to play...

Roll a dice 10 times and see how many times you land a 3 -- the odds are fairly terrible ( 1 in 6 ) -- You've got a higher chance of landing a 3 than gaining your double adrenaline.

The only reason you'd use either is if you can't think of a better hilt to put on it -- but that should never be an issue. To gain faster adrenaline you don't rely on a Furious hilt -- you bring Increased Attack Speed ( IAS ) instead.

jacksojj418 · Nov 01, 2005, 05:48 PM // 17:48

I said between sunder and furious, vampric/zealous is crap to me, hammer hit slow as it is. Hammers mainly need adrenaline or to do more damage.

entropy · Nov 01, 2005, 06:05 PM // 18:05

They are both shit! Thats about it. Go vamp for more damage. 10% armor penetration 1 in 10 I mean that is so bad. With vamp if you hit 10 times you do 50 more damage. the -1 regen is so worth the extra damage. Its 5/-1 for vamp hammer perfect. Furious is still 10-1. Great so every hammer chains you get 1 extra adrenaline FTW

. And its unreliable too

striderkaaru · Nov 01, 2005, 06:08 PM // 18:08

i'm quite aware of what 10% means, but thanks for the detailed explanation.

like i mentioned before, most hammer users focus on getting the knockdown chain off. this usually entails building up adrenaline. what use then is a zealous haft? it might net me more energy despite the slow attack speed, but what do i do with energy i'm not going to use? the warrior's base energy pool and regen is usually sufficient for the needs of a hammer warrior. specialized builds might be able to use the energy, but those are special cases.

i understand that the double adrenaline gain has a 1 in 10 chance of happening. that's still something. it's not something you rely on happening, but rather a good surprise. but if it does happen, that's your opponent on his ass earlier than expected.

you might be able to argue about the extra damage from a vamp haft, but that comes down to personal preference. i can see vamp maybe being useful, but not zealous. not for hammer.

plus, i was just answering the op's question between sundering/furious. =P

Ollj · Nov 01, 2005, 08:43 PM // 20:43

zealous:
-1 energy regen means 5 energy less per 15 seconds.
You simply have to hit more than 5-10 times every 15 seconds to gain more energy than you lose.
you will have less energy while you do not hit and gain more energy everytime you hit, its spike supportive.
your extra energy must be worth moire than another upgrade.
simple examples are:
gaining energy for aftershock with a hammer warrior.
gaining energy for axe twist.
gaining energy for Sword "finishing skills".

elemental:
doing no physical damage makes you weaker against rangers and mesmers and stronger against necromancers and monks. For elementalists it depends on the elementalists armor type.
You also can not be supported by necromancer skills. But by elementalist skills. The conjure * skills almost double your base damage.

Cruel (Lengthens deep wound duration on foe by 33%):
good against monks and warriors.
Heavy (Lengthens weakness duration on foe by 33%):
good against warriors.
Crippling (Lengthens crippled duration on foe by 33%):
good against warriors and rangers.
Barbed (lenghtens bleeding by 33%):
good against rangers and mesmers.
Poisoner's (Lengthens poison duration on foe by 33%):
good against mesmers.

Furious (double adrenaline chance 10%):
instead of 25 adrenaline "points" you gain ~27,5 per hit.
i hardly can see any use of this.

Sundering (10% armor penetration chance 10%).
i hardly can see any use of this.

Xasew · Nov 01, 2005, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Vampiric during the spike. 25 bonus dmg that ignores armor on my combo, yes please.
Zealous when gathering adrenaline so you get the energy back that you lost during the spike.

If you want adrenaline faster you might wanna consider other, more efficient options.

Neo-LD · Nov 01, 2005, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

zealous:
-1 energy regen means 5 energy less per 15 seconds.
You simply have to hit more than 5-10 times every 15 seconds to gain more energy than you lose.
you will have less energy while you do not hit and gain more energy everytime you hit, its spike supportive.
your extra energy must be worth moire than another upgrade.
simple examples are:
gaining energy for aftershock with a hammer warrior.
gaining energy for axe twist.
gaining energy for Sword "finishing skills".

elemental:
doing no physical damage makes you weaker against rangers and mesmers and stronger against necromancers and monks. For elementalists it depends on the elementalists armor type.
You also can not be supported by necromancer skills. But by elementalist skills. The conjure * skills almost double your base damage.

Cruel (Lengthens deep wound duration on foe by 33%):
good against monks and warriors.
Heavy (Lengthens weakness duration on foe by 33%):
good against warriors.
Crippling (Lengthens crippled duration on foe by 33%):
good against warriors and rangers.
Barbed (lenghtens bleeding by 33%):
good against rangers and mesmers.
Poisoner's (Lengthens poison duration on foe by 33%):
good against mesmers.

Furious (double adrenaline chance 10%):
instead of 25 adrenaline "points" you gain ~27,5 per hit.
i hardly can see any use of this.

Sundering (10% armor penetration chance 10%).
i hardly can see any use of this.

-_-;; Ollj does it again.

anyways axe twist requires no energy but you are correct you have to hit 5 times in 15s to break even. (once every 3s in simpler terms)

but as for those conditional hilts.... deep wound is equally good against anyone as long as it is taking lots of damage. i understand heavy vs warriors but it is also good vs rangers. crippling yes is good vs wars but doesnt really affect rangers. It is good against running monks though. lastly, i dont see how bleeding or poison are espsecially great vs anything more than anything else.

and what is this "25 adrenaline points" thing. rate of adrenaline built up over a minute?

Mercury Angel · Nov 01, 2005, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

-_-;; Ollj does it again.

anyways axe twist requires no energy but you are correct you have to hit 5 times in 15s to break even. (once every 3s in simpler terms)

but as for those conditional hilts.... deep wound is equally good against anyone as long as it is taking lots of damage. i understand heavy vs warriors but it is also good vs rangers. crippling yes is good vs wars but doesnt really affect rangers. It is good against running monks though. lastly, i dont see how bleeding or poison are espsecially great vs anything more than anything else.

and what is this "25 adrenaline points" thing. rate of adrenaline built up over a minute?

25 adrenaline points is what you gain for each hit against an opponent.
A strike of Adrenaline for use in a skill is usually 20 adrenaline points.

http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49539

Lynnrose · Nov 01, 2005, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Sundering on pretty much any weapon is widely considered (and mathematically accepted) to be crap. Furious isn't a whole lot better under most circumstances. Max vamp upgrades are fantastic because of the unconditional damage they do. Zealous hammers are iffy, but zealous is a great upgrade for swords and axes.

To answer the OP's question: neither sundering nor furious is a great choice for a hammer warrior. Gimme 5:1 vamp most of the time.

Ollj · Nov 04, 2005, 07:44 PM // 19:44

and what is this "25 adrenaline points" thing. rate of adrenaline built up over a minute?
http://www.guildwiki.org/wiki/Adrenaline

delfin42 · Nov 04, 2005, 09:22 PM // 21:22

How about grips? If I had a gold 15% while > 50% hammer and wanted to turn it into Das Uberhammer, what would complement a Vampiric 5/1 haft well?

mr_boo · Nov 04, 2005, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by delfin42

How about grips? If I had a gold 15% while > 50% hammer and wanted to turn it into Das Uberhammer, what would complement a Vampiric 5/1 haft well?

I'd go with the +5 defense grip...it's a solid choice in any given situation.